So we have a new guest ranter that would like to share some words of wisdom. No complaints from me, that is one more rant I don't have to half-ass at the last minute. =) Take it away Emi Neubauer.
Cya in 7
"When a baby is born, they are a blank slate. "Fresh meat" so to speak, and most parents try their darndest to shape their child into a person who believes what they believe to be right, but what is the definition of "right" how are we to know that one persons politics/religion/(fill in the blank) is "right" while the next guy/gal's is "wrong"?
Cya in 7
"When a baby is born, they are a blank slate. "Fresh meat" so to speak, and most parents try their darndest to shape their child into a person who believes what they believe to be right, but what is the definition of "right" how are we to know that one persons politics/religion/(fill in the blank) is "right" while the next guy/gal's is "wrong"?
I will speak in metaphor.
I was raised a Ham Sandwich. My parents were not raised Ham Sandwiches, but chose to become ham sandwiches as adults by some door-to-door ham sandwich salesmen, and they bought the sales pitch.
They raised me from birth to believe in the way of the ham sandwich, and that ham sandwiches were "right" and "the only true sandwich" out there. I was not excluded from associating with non-ham sandwiches (which would have alienated me from my entire extended family), but it was hard to not surround myself with non ham sandwiches where I was raised, a pretty big ham sandwich picnic (maybe not the biggest, but next door to the biggest ham sandwich picnic). I did know people who were banned from associating with non ham sandwiches.
you still with me?
Growing up, children were fed the ham sandwich, and basically told by their parents that this was the only sandwich option available. So they opened up their mouth and ate. People would go up to "announce" their love of the ham sandwich, sometimes whispering in their child's ear what they should regurgitate about the ham sandwich. Even as a small child, I remember questioning the sincerity of these statements. How true can it be if someone has to tell you what is right and true?
What if I want a Turkey sandwich? Is that an option?
So, If a ham sandwich is a persons ONLY dining option, and they are surrounded by other ham sandwiches and not anything else, how do they TRULY know the ham sandwich really is the right one? Or they are just creatures of habit and comfort and don't want to get out of their bubble? Isn't it easier to order the same (usual) item that you know off the menu then to risk trying something new and possibly not liking it? That is how the ham sandwich (or anyone's sandwich) gets you.
I've associated myself with many ham sandwiches; some I can't stand, some I love, most I just tolerate, but I've also associated myself with Turkey, Egg Salad, Peanut butter and jelly, as well as many, many Roast Beef Sandwiches who dip their sandwiches in an au jus that many ham sandwiches think is a sin. And So It Goes.
But I had to deliberately choose to explore the rest of the menu. And I choose the Salad.
Its easy to just follow the line in the potluck.
Now its my turn with a kid. I'm not raising him a ham sandwich, but he has tasted that sandwich. I want him to choose what he wants to eat, It's my job to allow him to experience the entire menu and come to the decision on his own what he chooses to bite. Is that weak of me? Should I be ordering for him and basically telling him what he should eat? Not letting him leave the table till his plate is clean.
I don't want that for him. And I hope I'm doing right, but I think its possible for him to be raised sandwich less and still grow up to be a decent, caring, respectable human being, there are many people who are.
What about you? Discuss.
- The Vegetarian"
I think even if someone doesn’t want to raise their children as a Ham Sandwich, that they should pick some other type of sandwich to raise them as. Because kids and teenagers and even young adults need some structure and boundaries. There have to be some things that each person believes are aus jus sauces, right? If a kid or teenager has no reason to NOT dip into any version of aus jus sauce, then they likely WILL dip into many kinds of aus j us saces. Whereas if they have some set boundaries and structure, and have a reason to not partake of the aus jus sauce, they’re more likely not to.
ReplyDeleteBut if you are going to raise them as a plain, generic sandwich, then you have to be okay with whatever sandwich they choose in the end, whether it be ham, pb&j, turkey, or egg salad. And I think that if they are raised as a generic sandwich, they will most likely choose to not even be a sandwich at all. They may choose to be something like a burrito instead.
Becky
So is posting in black text on a black background part of the rant in someway? I don't get that part... ;)
ReplyDeleteI love this one. I was raised in a strict ham sandwich home. Me and my dad didn't get a long because his ideas are law. But now I can accept him for who he is and although he struggles to do the same for me, I accept him and therefore don't let it bother me. I just don't bring up subjects I know we disagree on. Pretty simple. But I respect him because he made me who I am in large part because we fought. It helped me build my character and know what I believe. That being said, for the two years after I graduated, I went completely against the ham sandwich and perused every bit of the menu I could get my hands on. I was the only one in my picnic to do so. If you tell me not to do something it's in my personality to do it and figure out why. It was being in certain compromised situations that things I knew to be true would creep back into my head. I decided after two year to go back to eating a ham sandwich just to see how I felt. I then knew it was the sandwich for me. I'm glad I explored. What I love is there is not just one kind of ham sandwich. I am certainly my own version. I have my own relationship with the ham sandwich. Some may disagree with me but that's between me and my ham sandwich. I love everyone off the menu. I don't like others judging anyone off the menu or lumping them all into one category. Or assuming because you're a ham sandwich you're all the same. I usually don't care what part of the menu you are and I don't usually ask. And if someone acts a way towards me that I don't like, even if I find out they're a ham sandwich, I know it's them being a jerk, not them being a ham sandwich. I really enjoy where I'm at in life and it's definitely because I explored the menu which I encourage everyone to do.
ReplyDeleteBecky, great comments! I do think children need some sort of guidance. Those who don't stand for something will fall for anything.
Bek-
ReplyDeleteI really honestly don't believe organized "sandwiches" are what make someone a good person. Its the parenting. My husband was raised sandwicheless, and is one of the best people I know. My father is a hardcore Ham Sandwich and everyone around him (who are not good judges of character) thinks hes a great guy, but then he would go home and treat him family like crap. So, its the person, not the religion that makes someone good. I want to raise my son to be the best possible person he can be, to care about others (ALL OTHERS), the earth, animals, etc. without having an "agenda" which I see a lot of organized religions have. They stratch each others backs, and judge everyone else. And when he grows up, whatever he wants to be, he can be, he will be old enough to make that choice himself. I don't want to make that choice for him. As long as he's a good person.
Until the age of 12.. yes, that's right... 12! I thought everyone in the whole wide would was a ham sandwich. It wasn't until we moved from our bubble to Boise (another highly populated town of ham sandwiches but also had some p&j, turkey, etc) When I got the shocking news that people existed outside the ham sandwich world... I was sooo mad. I felt like I had been mislead in some way. Why didn't someone show me all the different kinds of sandwiches and actually let ME choose? How could someone not tell me?
ReplyDeleteLesson learned.
One of my munchkinheads turns 8 in one year... she has a hard time understanding that there is more than just one kind of sandwich and people that live very happily sandwicheless. Up until a few months ago she thought anyone that went to the sandwich shop was a ham sandwich. For example... we were watching John and Kate plus 8 and
Munchkinhead says: "I'm gonna be the kind of ham sandwich that John and Kate are"..
Me: "what do you mean? John and Kate aren't ham sandwich"
Munchkinhead: "Yes, they are. I've seen them pray and talk about church. But they drink coffee like you. I wanna drink coffee and be a ham sandwich"
Got a flash back to my ham sandwich childhood at the age of 12... and it is now my mission to show munchkinhead MANY different sandwiches. I will be taking her to a different sandwich shop each and every Sunday and letting her see the beautiful diverse world out there. If a sandwich shop isn't available then we will have our own session with all the learning tools the lovely internet provides. I heart wikipedia. THEN she will truly be able to know for herself what she wants to do at the ripe old age of 8.. yes cause apparently that's when she is old enough to know and choose whether the land of ham sandwiches is for her. If she isn't fully informed by 8.. as I'm sure she won't... I will keep living a life of respecting and caring about all and keep educating that little munchkinhead.
As for people thinking children *need* to have some form of sandwiches to make them a good person.. personal opinion.. that's a load of bunk.
I like Emi, am married to a man that was raised sandwicheless and he is one of the most amazing people I know. Has never smoked. Never done any drugs. Has not abused alcohol. Got good grades. Went to college got good grades there. Respects all... and the list keeps going... and going... much like the energizer bunny.
Peace out.
Oh I love this topic. What a great discussion! I agree with and identify with everything that has been said so I don't have a lot to add. I love salads and I love all kinds of sandwiches. I, too, always wondered how a person is supposed to know if something is the "one and only true sandwich" if they never had any other sandwiches. I thought only the ham sandwiches were good and everything else on the menu was "bad." Oh, how wrong I was. I strive to teach my children about the goodness in all people regardless of their menu choice.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the age of eight. I don't remember not being a ham sandwich being an option for me growing up. Just something everyone in the family did, so when it came my turn, I did it too. However, as I raise my children, we offer that as a choice to be decided upon or not, not an obligation or matter of tradition.
I just think everyone has to do what's right for them. It's such a personal thing. Great rant vegetarian.
Great point Amanda. I plan to do the same thing with our kids at 8. I will have a serious conversation with them and let them know they do have a choice and that whatever that choice is will be supported.
ReplyDeletebut really, is 8 old enough to make a decision like that? most 8 year olds just want to do what their friends are doing.
ReplyDeletei don't think 8 is old enough.... ummmm definitely not the case for me. not to mention the guilt that comes along with it. I told my mom that i did not believe in ham sandwich at the age of 13... she ran off crying.. saying "i've raised my kids all wrong!" and i found her in her bedroom.. kneeling at her bed praying and crying. Scared the crap out of me. From that point on I put on the fake face "sure I believe... don't be unhappy" because it made the parents happy. Took me a very long time to decide I needed to make myself happy and everyone else can take it or leave it.
ReplyDeleteLooking at my kiddo who just turned 7... no way she'll be ready by 8 and she has one parent who is a VERY strict ham sandwich and one who is a veggiehead.
i will continue to keep positive thoughts about it and hope she doesn't feel the 100 pounds of guilt weight on her shoulders while partaking in the ham sandwich rituals.
I realized all the cool sandwiches and salads were commenting over here. Just like I stood out as a non-ham sandwich as a kid my lone comment on the Facebook rant stands out. {blushes}
ReplyDeleteI was raised sandwichless, a salad surrounded by ham sandwiches. Unless you count AA religion as a sandwich, that's likely a pastrami on rye if I were to guess.
Some ham sandwiches could picnic with me, others could not. Like Miracle Whip, I miraculously grew up to be a pretty decent, caring and respectable sandwichless human being if I do say so myself.
Not to toot my own tomatoes but perhaps an even more decent, caring and respectable than many ham sandwiches I could or couldn't picnic with?... Read More
(speaking in metaphors is exhausting, props to the Vegetarian)
Allison if you're comparing yourself to Miracle Whip, that's anything but decent. Now mayo on the other hand, surpasses decent. ;)
ReplyDeleteHow about we just say that you're the next best thing to sliced bread! he he.
I was raised as a turkey sandwich, but tried many, many types of sandwiches in my life (and ate salad exclusively for a time as well). As an adult I decided I wanted to be a ham sandwich. However, I'm a ham sandwich on pumpernickel with a little spicy brown mustard and a garlic pickle and that bothers many of the other ham sandwiches who think you're only a good ham sandwich if you're made with white bread and mayo. Sometimes that makes being a ham sandwich hard, but I try to remember that the HAM is still good--there are just some bad sandwiches.
ReplyDeleteI'm raising my kids as ham sandwiches, but I also make them aware that other sandwiches taste good, too. I try to teach them why I believe that ham sandwiches are the best choice rather than just cramming the ham sandwich down their throats.
I agree that 8 is young to make the sandwich decision, but many non-ham sandwiches who study child development say that eight really is an age that children can make such decisions. It doesn't mean that they won't change their minds later, though.
I have never and will never tell my kids what to say if they so choose to announce their love of the ham sandwich. I agree wholeheartedly that if you can't say it on your own, you shouldn't be saying it.
Wow what a rant! I love all the comments. I was raised half ham sandwich and half pb&j. Went every Sunday with the other ham's but didn't do all the extra stuff through out the week most other ham sandwiches did on account that like I said I was only raised as a half. I am very grateful that my parents didn't force me to go any which way. They let all four of us know how the ham side was and how the pb&j side was. Life was full of choices and the consiquences of the bad was and good was layed out for us to choose from. We all ended up ham sandwiches but it was by our own choice not by force. I did get a lot of flack growing up only a half ham from the full ham sandwiches though. That part I hated and really disagree with parents teaching their children not to except those who are different. I do agree that children need some structure mainly for the fact of knowing the results of their actions(not religion wise). My husband was raised strict ham and rebeled for a time. I was give freedom and never fell for any big temtations. As for the whole 8 thing, the jury is still out on that one. There was so much I didn't even know about the ham until I was well into my teens even though I still partake in it to this day. Thanks Emi and KJ I really enjoyed this rant.
ReplyDeleteSalad for me, thanks.
ReplyDeleteAnne